Home // The Rage! It Burns! // Gas Price Frustration – A Rebuttal

Gas Price Frustration – A Rebuttal

Since I don’t particularly feel like leaving a multiple paragraph reply to the post over on Shaun’s blog that sparked this topic, I’ll put my rebuttal here.

Shaun was talking about complaints about gas prices, and how they’re effectively futile in terms of creating change. I agree with that part. What I don’t agree with is what he believes is the underlying reason for those complaints  :

They are frustrated and I believe for most (not all) people they are frustrated because they are busted financially and have debts that need repaying causing them to have no room in their budget to take into account the additional hike in price.

Might this be the case for some people? Sure. However, to say that everyone complains/ worries about gas prices simply because they haven’t budgeted for the extra costs now required of a fill-up is simplistic, to say the least, and completely and utterly ignores how much rising fuel costs affect everything else. For example :

-We live in a globalized economy. Manufacturing bases/growing centers and stores/markets for those products are not in any way close to each other anymore. Therefore, vast tracts of our economy depend largely on transport. As the cost of fuel rises, so does the cost of that transport. As that rises, so do the costs of making products available…and therefore, the costs of everything. And this can’t simply be blown off as “Pffft, so luxury goods are more expensive…” unless one believes something like food is a luxury item.

TANGENT WARNING! I also feel the need to respond to this :

Lastly there are those who have no debt and have low income and yes for those people it will be tough and frustration is truly understandable, however there are many opportunities out there to better your situation, that’s my opinion.

Really? So someone who received a lesser education and therefore fewer opportunities than others simply because they had the unfortunate luck to be born in to a poor family in a poor segment of society has the same chance for opportunities for betterment? Really? And don’t give me that “Well, there was that one guy! They wrote a book/made a movie about him!” Yeah…they did that because he/she WAS AN ANOMALY. Seriously, the whole idea that ‘everyone has the same chance’ is nothing more than a nonsense fairy tale.

TANGENT OVER!

-The actual production/harvesting of goods burns fuel. If the costs of fuel rise, so do the costs of manufacturing/harvesting. Yet again, that causes a resulting price escalation to the products being manufactured/harvested.

Yes, both of these can also be chalked up to the worries of those carrying too much debt, but that would again be simplistic and foolish. Even people who are living within their means and budgeting smartly are negatively affected when the cost of literally every single product they buy goes up. Besides, complaining about gas prices does not in any way equal complaining that you can’t afford gas.

Incidentally Shaun, this will directly affect you. Your business depends entirely on shipped goods. Guess what happens when those shipping costs go up? So do the costs of those goods. So either you’re eating that added cost and your net profit per sale just dropped, or you’re charging your potential customers more money and quite likely making fewer sales as a result.

-Fuel isn’t just gasoline for your car. Last I checked, it also affects such things as heating your home in the winter. Shocking that that would be something people might worry about. Again, not because they can’t afford it, but because it does directly affect them. People tend to have a weird habit of complaining about things that affect them.

-Gas prices come from oil prices, just as gas comes from oil. Plastic and rubber are produced from oil. So if the cost of oil rises, so does the cost of producing plastic and rubber. You might want to take note of the fact that virtually everything you buy these days contains/is packaged in at least one of those. Perhaps doing some research in to just how many other products out there are partially produced from petroleum (everything from paint to Antihistamines) might offer some more insight in to why increasing petroleum costs are not a great thing.

-Every single time you increase the cost of oil, you tend to increase the militancy of the Middle East. This doesn’t usually end up being a good thing. Do you think that Western nations are more or less likely to stay politically and militarily involved long beyond when and how they should as the sole commodity that region produces keeps skyrocketing in value? Do you think that giving more and more global power to such ‘friendly’ nations as Saudi Arabia as oil prices rise might perhaps not have spectacular results for humanity as a whole?Those sorts of things tend to involve a lot of typically nasty repercussions.

-On a local level, remember the last time oil boomed? Remember how the cost of living shot up in Alberta as a result of that boom? Remember how you couldn’t get decent service ANYWHERE because nobody wanted to work a service job? And the cost of everything in Fort Mac shot to such ridiculous levels that EVERYONE was affected, regardless of debt load. Meanwhile, that region also served as such a massive employment vacuum that nobody anywhere else in the province could staff up. It wasn’t a good situation. A lot of important work, such as repairs to provincial infrastructure, had to be postponed because there simply weren’t enough workers available to cover all the projects. And we’re still playing catch up in trying to get that work done.

That’s just a beginning to showing how dismissing concern/complaint about gas prices as simply being an issue of broke people complaining about not being able to afford gas is simplistic nonsense. Every segment of the global economy is affected, and it has major geo-political impact. I could go on, but this is long enough as is and my point is made.

Posted in The Rage! It Burns!
  • Tammy

    You are an awesome rebuttalist! Those are really good points especially about how the price of gas effects transportation and especially things like food and heat. I also agree that the last “boom” wasn’t all that swell for those of us in Alberta as the prices of housing, food, etc rose tremendously and further marginalized those less fortunate.

    I do however get twinges of gratification sometimes when i see people pulling up their ridiculous houses on wheels with their SUV in tow to fill up to the toon of hundreds of dollars a fill. Although, those people have more money than brains so I suspect it doesn’t really hurt them at all : ( Unfortunately the rich often think they are exempt from responsibility. I can certainly afford to drive a big ass vehicle and pay cash at the pump every time, but I don’t because its not necessary.

    But I think you are right Cliff, we forget all of the things gas does besides fill up our vehicles. I just went for groceries today and shazam it’s expensive. Anyway, good post, lots of things to think of.

  • Brad

    So here are some interesting articles for you Cliff.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/15/business/15shop.html?em&ex=1187323200&en=f0b9ceb31f98fb1f&ei=5087

    So the CEO of WalMart, the place where the poor people shop, says that as the month ends his customers are running out of money, and he blames high energy costs for this.

    A comment on Shaun’s blog is right, its not supply and demand that is creating higher gas prices, its speculators.
    http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2011/04/28/eia-speculator-cutback/

    Its also not just oil that speculators are causing higher prices on, they are doing it to foods as well.

    I do get annoyed at the attitude of ‘I can do it so everybody else can too’. As Cliff said it all depends on opportunities. I bet that if you stuck every single one of the people saying that into the situation of a lot of working poor, they’d be in exactly the same position as the vast majority of the working poor. The working poor are not ‘lazy’ or ‘too stupid to look for opportunities’ or ‘spending their money on idiotic buying sprees’, while you can point to one or two stories about this person or that people that do that, most are hard working, saving what little they can and are trying to do the best they can for their family. And yes, sometimes that does mean going out and buying that 360 so your kids can enjoy it, even if that means saving for 6 months to do it.

    As you can tell the ‘elitist’ attitude of some people irks me too.

  • http://expeditionoftruths.com Shaun

    Thanks for the rebuttal you do make some good points I’ll give you that. First let me correct some misinterpretation of my quotes.

    “Might this be the case for some people? Sure. However, to say that everyone complains/ worries about gas prices simply because they haven’t budgeted for the extra costs now required of a fill-up is simplistic”

    If you re-read my quote you’ll see I didn’t say everyone complains. I said “I believe for the most part (not all)”

    “Seriously, the whole idea that ‘everyone has the same chance’ is nothing more than a nonsense fairy tale”

    I never said everyone has the same chance, I said “there are many opportunities out there to better your situation”. That isn’t even close to saying everyone has the same chance.

    Anyway….

    While everything you said is true, the reason why I leave it as simplistic is because most people don’t think of everything you wrote. You don’t see the news interviewing someone when they see the rise of banana’s by 20 cents. Your right, all of that stuff gets affected and impacts our pocket books however people will complain and get frustrated at what they see directly and that’s simply the cost of gas at the pumps. Which is exactly why my statement can be as simplistic.

    Even if my comment wasn’t simplistic and I talked about some of the stuff you had mentioned in my post and went into more details the underlying frustration of being strapped for cash, being busted, in debt, etc.. whatever you want to call it still applies. The rising costs of anything in our society would make a person deep in debt a hell of a lot more frustrated and pissy than someone not in debt.

    Lets not side skirt the underlying issue here which to be honest is a country full of people who think instant gratification is cool and that having a Starbucks (5bucks) latte twice a day is the best way to spend their money when they’ve got massive amounts of debt piling up (That was us by the way which is why I can say that, I point that finger right at us). There is one of the most fundamental root causes of peoples frustrations in society. Why do you think, depending on what you read and what stats you pull from the divorce rate is around 60% and that just so happens to be the percentage of people who live paycheck to paycheck (6 out of 10 Canadians live paycheck to paycheck). Interesting how those two stats correlate. Money and the lack of it is a huge ass problem these days which causes the frustrations when things like gas prices go up, food prices go up, heating prices go up. Take your pick. Not only does it cause frustrations with commodities but it causes frustrations in our relationships, marriages, etc…

    If people only lived within their means they wouldn’t be as frustrated (as I mentioned on my blog “Someone who doesn’t have debt has a lot less frustration (yes it’s okay to be frustrated) because there are no other debt commitments pulling them from side to side.” )

    Anyway what I’m trying to convey and why I left it as simplistic is people will get frustrated over the rising cost of gas (or insert your rising commodity) because they don’t have the means to cover the additional expense. If they did, they wouldn’t be as frustrated and wouldn’t let it consume them.

  • http://expeditionoftruths.com Shaun

    “I do get annoyed at the attitude of ‘I can do it so everybody else can too’. ” If that’s meaning getting out of debt you bet your ass people can. It’s the negative attitude or even that I can’t do what they did attitude that has people stuck doing the same thing over and over again.

    It’s not like I made bucket loads of money to get out of debt. It was a mentality shift of removing the “being in debt is cool, and I’ll buy whatever I want when I want attitude” (which we had) and having the mentality of “oh shit I want a family but have 100K of consumer debt and don’t want my family in that situation, I better do something about it” attitude. I honestly believe whole heartedly if people have a big enough reason to get out of debt they could no matter what obstacles. Again my opinion.

  • http://www.peerpressureworks.com Cliff

    Are there many opportunities out there for the betterment of someone’s
    situation? Sure. My point is, not everyone has the same number of
    opportunities, and it frequently has nothing to do with anything they’ve
    done or not done with their life. The world isn’t equal…it never has been,
    and it never will be.

    Anyway,

    I completely agree with you on the topic of people wanting everything right
    now. We’ve become a society of instant gratification, and that isn’t always
    a healthy thing. I also agree with you when it comes to debt load and the
    way that can have a negative effect on pretty much every aspect of their
    well being. My point is that when the costs of every facet of living are
    driven up by something like rising fuel costs, EVERYONE is going to be
    affected by that. It doesn’t matter how well you budget or how realistically
    you’re living your life in terms of what you bring in financially, you are
    going to be affected when the costs of everything around you go up.

    And while I agree that a lot of people don’t think about it in terms beyond
    the numbers on the gas pump, it doesn’t change the fact that they will still
    be affected by other cost escalations. They’re affected, even if they don’t
    realize it. You don’t have to consciously think about the fact that
    commodity prices will go up as the cost of production and transport of them
    goes up to be affected by those rising costs…it hits everyone across the
    board. And as I pointed out, it goes well beyond affecting individuals and
    families and starts to become an issue on a regional and even national
    level. That goes way beyond something as simple as a person getting angry
    because they can’t afford to eat at a restaurant on a daily basis any
    longer.

  • Tammy

    I really do agree that debt is out of control. People need to live within their means and people have different means. I have learned over the years to have money taken off my cheque each month to be put into a money market or some sort of accessible fund. Then when i either need/want something or my fridge croaks, I withdraw from that fund and pay cash for the thing. Credit cards are dangerous. Often we fall into those traps in our 20′s and hopefully learn from there. However, with the free flowage of credit from every source people are getting in way over their heads fast.

    I am constantly shocked by what people truly perceive as a need. Unfortunately a lot of people, rich and poor suffer from bad judgment. My ex used to put gas and smokes on a credit card (did I mention he is my Ex). I had to take his credit card away like a child because we would end up paying INTEREST on consumables that are already taxed up the ass! Good lord.

    Anyway, interesting conversation all the way around.

  • Shaun Guthrie

    I have to say Tammy you have some great habits there with how you manage your money that’s for sure. Very rare in these times. Glad to hear it for sure.

    Those gas credit cards are one of the worst too! yikes!

  • Brad

    “If that’s meaning getting out of debt you bet your ass people can. It’s the negative attitude or even that I can’t do what they did attitude that has people stuck doing the same thing over and over again.”

    Really? Cause a positive attitude works wonders when you’re unemployed or underemployed. What happens when you lose your job, through no fault of your own, and you have a family to feed? A shitty economy is not going to get better through a positive attitude and wishing. I understand what you are saying in that a defeatist attitude can be harmful, however a shitty economy with no jobs is a shitty economy with no jobs and if you can’t find work you’re fucked, positive attitude or not.

    “I honestly believe whole heartedly if people have a big enough reason to get out of debt they could no matter what obstacles”

    The funny thing is that there are literally millions of people in the US alone who have every reason to want to be out of debt, but can’t because of the shitty economy. I’m not just talking about people who are stuck in the cycle of poverty either, I’m talking about people who were middle class who all of a sudden lost jobs, who before had good credit and little to worry about. Its extremely easy to all of a sudden be relying on savings and then go through that and be massively in debt. In the US its one accident away from crippling medical bills too, insured or not.

    I find the simplistic argument to be way off base and completely ignores real issues that effect real people. Its a far far deeper issue than just saying ‘people should manage their money better’ and leave it at that. Its like saying ‘all white people can’t dance’ or ‘all Chinese people are smart’ or ‘all rich people are elitist assholes’. Its a simplistic argument right? Is it partially true? Yes. But doesn’t hold water when looked at closely.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SHQWRQ3544VEM77J4BWJCK3TEI rocketsrants

    You’re going to have to cut Shaun some slack here. He is getting counsel from people who say things like this all the time. A great deal of the money they make depends upon Shaun believing what they are saying, and buying what they are selling (positivity and hope of eventual enormous wealth).

    Unfortunately the odds are against him, but the idea of anybody can do anything is very prevalent in Amway and the Motivational Organizations.

    Even if success isn’t.

  • Kim

    Hmm. I was hoping to reply to Shaun on his blog but comments seem to be turned back off. Since it’s all tied together, I hope you’ll forgive me if I use your blog to reply to Shaun, Cliff. ;)

    Shaun, I think that so much of what we see in the world boils down to our perspective. A gas price is a gas price, and our thoughts in reaction to this show where our mind is coming from. We’ve all seen people who blame something (the government, immigrants etc.) for what seems like everything under the sun. With big issues, especially, it’s incredibly difficult to point to one cause for current conditions. Saying that gas price frustration is directly linked to debt load is just a small slice of the picture. I think that giving it as much weight as you do does not accurately portray the situation.

    We all have our own perspectives, our own life experiences, and our unique views. The danger with getting overly weighed down with one way of viewing the world is that we lose sight of other points of view. In the extreme, we begin alienating those with dissimilar viewpoints. We don’t need to take on everyone’s viewpoint, but in conversation with someone it’s good to at least keep their viewpoint in mind.

  • http://expeditionoftruths.com Shaun

    Thanks “Rocket” but my blog post wasn’t about Amway or anything in relation to WWDB or anything like that. Also my recent success in cutting down my debt only incorporated maybe 1% of my earnings from our business because I wanted to ensure we could cut our debt without the help of our business and we succeeded in that.

    Don’t be a hater and don’t be a D-Bag using my friends blogs to try and cut me down. That’s just disrespectful.

  • http://www.peerpressureworks.com Cliff

    How about I decide what’s allowed on my blog, okay?

    I left Rocket’s comment because it sort of was a response to the ‘not
    everyone has the same opportunities’ part of the discussion. And I’m leaving
    yours because you deserve a chance to reply.

    That’s it. If the two of you wish to continue your conversation in this
    direction, you can find a new arena in which to do so. Either of you
    ventures off the topical road and heads off in to the wild country of
    passive aggression or direct shots again, the comment vanishes. Do it again
    and you never post a word here again. As much as I (clearly) do get a
    certain level of joy from attacking those I feel merit a bit of a backhand,
    I have better things to do with my time than manage a tantrum spat between
    two supposedly adult males.

  • Shaun

    fair enough.