Want...to...beat...with...hammers...!!!

fake… all I’m gonna say

fake… all I’m gonna say

I watched the entire thing. I thought I would get angrier than I did.

My response to the video:

Saraa – “I don’t believe in Hell.”
Christian girl 1 – “There’s a very good chance that Christianity is the right religion.”
Christian girl 2 – “Almost, like, positive, really.”
CG1 – “If your religion is right, I’m not going to Hell, but if my religion is right, you’re going to Hell.”

I have seen this logic applied to lots of arguments for and against Christianity. It’s a simple valuation. If God exists and I believe in him, I go to Heaven. If God doesn’t exist and I believe in him, nothing bad happens. If God doesn’t exist and I don’t believe in him, nothing bad happens. If God exists and I don’t believe in him, I go to Hell. There is no benefit in not believing in God, so I believe in him.
I think Descartes actually came up with this argument in the first place.

My problem with this line of thinking is that, from a religious point of view, it defies the very idea of faith. Faith should be a willingness to believe despite logical contradictions or conclusions that point in another direction. If you have to come up with truth tables and game theory in order to decide what to “believe”, you’re doing it wrong.

Saraa – “There is no right or wrong, you know what I mean?”

This is a plea for understanding that, understandably, falls on deaf ears. This was an intervention, and interveners never listen to anything that their target has to say by way of excusing their own behaviour (beliefs?). In their minds (in their beliefs) there is right and wrong and they’re trying to show her that she’s wrong, so of course this is going to be disregarded.

CG1 – “You’re not Hindu, you just think you are.”

At first, I thought this was really offensive. I still kind of think it is, but looking at it from CG1′s perspective, she was trying to say that Saraa was a ‘child of Jesus’ or something. It still shows a lack of sensitivity that I am almost willing to chalk up to them being teenagers.

CG1 – “It’s really hard to see people who are my friends, who are going to Hell and I really don’t want them to go to Hell and it’s really heart-breaking.”

This is another one of those pseudo-arguments where CG1 is completely unable to step outside of her own hegemony and understand that, for her “friend”, there is no Hell. In her own mind, CG1 is right, there’s no other option.

CG1 – “See all that beautiful grass and trees? That’s all from Jesus – well, God.”

The pithy reply to this argument is, “No, CG1, that beautiful grass and trees, they’re from Miguel – well, the gardener.” The actual reply is this: The beauty of the world is not proof of God. Nor is it evidence of God’s existence. What it is, is beauty, which can serve as confirmation to one who believes in God. I could as easily say: Look at that dead/abused/sick child. That proves/helps to show that god does/does not exist.

I thought Saraa was extremely patient, extremely willing to go along with things. Especially the “open your arms and let Jesus come into your heart” part. I was concerned that she was going to pretend to convert for a little bit there. (after all, at its heart, your domain name is right) When it came down to it, Saraa decided she’d had enough and agreed to disagree with CGs 1&2. She was the very definition of class when it came to the end. She had been through quite an ordeal and, at that age, it can be hard to hold on to yourself in the face of rhetoric and peer pressure.

My response to your response:

I will disagree with a contention you make in your post, Cliff. You state that they’re “strutting around like ‘chosen’ motherfuckers rubbing the God of their choice in everyone’s face.” I think that these two Christian girls were misguided and ignorant throughout the video. I think that they have already made up their minds about what is right and true. I think that they were hurtful toward someone they called a friend. I think that their arguments were piss-poor and pathetic, and probably wouldn’t sway someone who was almost ready to convert to Christianity. I don’t, however, think that this was some show of power. These girls truly believe that anyone who doesn’t believe in Jesus (Jee ZUS) is going to spend an eternity spit-polishing satan’s bifurcated tail while being prodded with red-hot pokers. I don’t believe it comes from a place of false pride. I believe it comes from a mixture of well-meaning, a kind of single-minded zealotry, and the ignorance and self-deluded certainty that can only come from a teenager.

I think the Africa/India thing was politically incorrect, but it seemed a little scripted, like the three of them had planned it in advance. Hell, we’ve said things less politically correct at coffee.

I don’t feel dirty or soiled from having watched it. I’m certainly not disappointed in Saraa’s actions throughout the video or at the end. Things got a little heated, which was basically her way of saying they’d gone too far. Then, however, she even had the self-confidence and class to shake their hands on the way out of the room.

I am curious, though, to know how long that went on. Sure, it’s a nine-and-a-half minute video, but it’s clearly edited. I suspect that if I’d seen everything that happened there, especially since there’s one point where Saraa is upset, maybe crying, I’d be ranting up a storm, just like you.

Thanks for posting this video, Cliff. It was a good reminder of the ignorance that unquestioning faith and a lack of perspective. It also helped me get some things off my chest that had been there since Lethbridge.

I watched the entire thing. I thought I would get angrier than I did.

My response to the video:

Saraa – “I don’t believe in Hell.”
Christian girl 1 – “There’s a very good chance that Christianity is the right religion.”
Christian girl 2 – “Almost, like, positive, really.”
CG1 – “If your religion is right, I’m not going to Hell, but if my religion is right, you’re going to Hell.”

I have seen this logic applied to lots of arguments for and against Christianity. It’s a simple valuation. If God exists and I believe in him, I go to Heaven. If God doesn’t exist and I believe in him, nothing bad happens. If God doesn’t exist and I don’t believe in him, nothing bad happens. If God exists and I don’t believe in him, I go to Hell. There is no benefit in not believing in God, so I believe in him.
I think Descartes actually came up with this argument in the first place.

My problem with this line of thinking is that, from a religious point of view, it defies the very idea of faith. Faith should be a willingness to believe despite logical contradictions or conclusions that point in another direction. If you have to come up with truth tables and game theory in order to decide what to “believe”, you’re doing it wrong.

Saraa – “There is no right or wrong, you know what I mean?”

This is a plea for understanding that, understandably, falls on deaf ears. This was an intervention, and interveners never listen to anything that their target has to say by way of excusing their own behaviour (beliefs?). In their minds (in their beliefs) there is right and wrong and they’re trying to show her that she’s wrong, so of course this is going to be disregarded.

CG1 – “You’re not Hindu, you just think you are.”

At first, I thought this was really offensive. I still kind of think it is, but looking at it from CG1′s perspective, she was trying to say that Saraa was a ‘child of Jesus’ or something. It still shows a lack of sensitivity that I am almost willing to chalk up to them being teenagers.

CG1 – “It’s really hard to see people who are my friends, who are going to Hell and I really don’t want them to go to Hell and it’s really heart-breaking.”

This is another one of those pseudo-arguments where CG1 is completely unable to step outside of her own hegemony and understand that, for her “friend”, there is no Hell. In her own mind, CG1 is right, there’s no other option.

CG1 – “See all that beautiful grass and trees? That’s all from Jesus – well, God.”

The pithy reply to this argument is, “No, CG1, that beautiful grass and trees, they’re from Miguel – well, the gardener.” The actual reply is this: The beauty of the world is not proof of God. Nor is it evidence of God’s existence. What it is, is beauty, which can serve as confirmation to one who believes in God. I could as easily say: Look at that dead/abused/sick child. That proves/helps to show that god does/does not exist.

I thought Saraa was extremely patient, extremely willing to go along with things. Especially the “open your arms and let Jesus come into your heart” part. I was concerned that she was going to pretend to convert for a little bit there. (after all, at its heart, your domain name is right) When it came down to it, Saraa decided she’d had enough and agreed to disagree with CGs 1&2. She was the very definition of class when it came to the end. She had been through quite an ordeal and, at that age, it can be hard to hold on to yourself in the face of rhetoric and peer pressure.

My response to your response:

I will disagree with a contention you make in your post, Cliff. You state that they’re “strutting around like ‘chosen’ motherfuckers rubbing the God of their choice in everyone’s face.” I think that these two Christian girls were misguided and ignorant throughout the video. I think that they have already made up their minds about what is right and true. I think that they were hurtful toward someone they called a friend. I think that their arguments were piss-poor and pathetic, and probably wouldn’t sway someone who was almost ready to convert to Christianity. I don’t, however, think that this was some show of power. These girls truly believe that anyone who doesn’t believe in Jesus (Jee ZUS) is going to spend an eternity spit-polishing satan’s bifurcated tail while being prodded with red-hot pokers. I don’t believe it comes from a place of false pride. I believe it comes from a mixture of well-meaning, a kind of single-minded zealotry, and the ignorance and self-deluded certainty that can only come from a teenager.

I think the Africa/India thing was politically incorrect, but it seemed a little scripted, like the three of them had planned it in advance. Hell, we’ve said things less politically correct at coffee.

I don’t feel dirty or soiled from having watched it. I’m certainly not disappointed in Saraa’s actions throughout the video or at the end. Things got a little heated, which was basically her way of saying they’d gone too far. Then, however, she even had the self-confidence and class to shake their hands on the way out of the room.

I am curious, though, to know how long that went on. Sure, it’s a nine-and-a-half minute video, but it’s clearly edited. I suspect that if I’d seen everything that happened there, especially since there’s one point where Saraa is upset, maybe crying, I’d be ranting up a storm, just like you.

Thanks for posting this video, Cliff. It was a good reminder of the ignorance that unquestioning faith and a lack of perspective. It also helped me get some things off my chest that had been there since Lethbridge.

Kyle: I was tempted, when they were holding hands, to agree with you that it might be fake, but CG1′s exasperation, inability to make a point, and Saraa’s obvious attempts to get the hell out of there at the end convinced me that it is real.

Kyle: I was tempted, when they were holding hands, to agree with you that it might be fake, but CG1′s exasperation, inability to make a point, and Saraa’s obvious attempts to get the hell out of there at the end convinced me that it is real.

I’m at 50/50 in believing it, specially after watching ‘Molly’s’ first video, which seems to be more of a blatant parody.

My first view of this definately I thought these girls were totally ignorant, but now I just donno. Even if its a parody its still pretty damned stupid.

I’m at 50/50 in believing it, specially after watching ‘Molly’s’ first video, which seems to be more of a blatant parody.

My first view of this definately I thought these girls were totally ignorant, but now I just donno. Even if its a parody its still pretty damned stupid.

Yeah i’m not sure, some of it makes me believe it’s real because of how they are acting. I mean if it’s a parody or fake you think it would be a bit more structured. Doesn’t seem that way.

I love how “Sarah” says “My God’s” so really she’s a Caprian or maybe she’s the 10th Cylon! Maybe she’s an African Cylon created by the God’s. ROFL

What a joke this is! These people need to be shot

Yeah i’m not sure, some of it makes me believe it’s real because of how they are acting. I mean if it’s a parody or fake you think it would be a bit more structured. Doesn’t seem that way.

I love how “Sarah” says “My God’s” so really she’s a Caprian or maybe she’s the 10th Cylon! Maybe she’s an African Cylon created by the God’s. ROFL

What a joke this is! These people need to be shot

Kyle : I pretty much agree with Liam’s second reply…aka, the short one.

Liam : Holy crap, dude! I am impressed with your wordiness! Very good response, and one that once again reminds me my first reaction doesn’t ALWAYS have to be “Kill them all!” (though a hammer beating still would have been a nice addition).

Shaun : The Hindu faith actually has multiples gods/goddesses. I believe it’s…I know there are more than 20…maybe around 30 in total?

Kyle : I pretty much agree with Liam’s second reply…aka, the short one.

Liam : Holy crap, dude! I am impressed with your wordiness! Very good response, and one that once again reminds me my first reaction doesn’t ALWAYS have to be “Kill them all!” (though a hammer beating still would have been a nice addition).

Shaun : The Hindu faith actually has multiples gods/goddesses. I believe it’s…I know there are more than 20…maybe around 30 in total?

Actually a quick search claims that Hinduism has 330 million gods and godesses.

I put this link on Prism for ya, but I’ll put it here too. I think you’ll like it.

http://www.break.com/index/door_to_door_atheists_bother_mormons.html

Actually a quick search claims that Hinduism has 330 million gods and godesses.

I put this link on Prism for ya, but I’ll put it here too. I think you’ll like it.

http://www.break.com/index/door_to_door_atheists_bother_mormons.html

Like I said…almost 330…:)

Like I said…almost 330…:)

Yeah I knew they had a lot but not THAT much. WOW. Almost a God per person… well not quite.

Yeah I knew they had a lot but not THAT much. WOW. Almost a God per person… well not quite.

I’m convinced its fake and pretty well done unscripted by some kids. I look forward to further content from them.

I’m convinced its fake and pretty well done unscripted by some kids. I look forward to further content from them.